Haute Horology

Can we talk?
I think we all realize most of the stuff surrounding "haute horology" and "fine watch brands" (as defined by Pierre "Ruptured Duck" Maillard's europastar) is pure snobbish designed to prop up the sales of over-priced items. There's no way, no how, a stainless watch should cost $4000 or more. These ass clowns are even MORE evil than Invicta!
Why?
Because their sleazy tactics SPAWNED the Big Cheese and gave The Lalo (May His Nut Sack Be Drained by a Raccoon) an opening (and credibility) in the business. He was able to convince gullible folks his watches were equal to name brands - because everyone knew the Swiss luxury industry was robbing consumers blind!
I'm thinking all high end watch companies are hucksters, too.

I care...... about some of them. I suppose I would care MORE if my bank account had MORE.

Seriously, you raise a valid question about the nature of the luxury market and not just for watches. A Timex tells time as well as a Breguet, maybe better but some of the luxury brands have a much more interesting story to tell. The notion of heritage and story has not escaped the marketers at Invicta even if half of it is a pipe dream.

Let's face it...I think some people who can afford the high end brands do so only to impress others because if they were wearing a nothing brand, perhaps their cohorts wouldn't like them so much.

Luxury and ego are tied into this discussion.

I don't know, never had a hand fall off my Patek - or Vacheron - or JLC - or Girard Perregaux - or even (sneer) Rolex. I don't believe Eyal had to convince his adherents about anything - the "I can't afford it so I don't really want it because it's all bullshit, but I really do - desperately" sour grapes mindset is at least as old as Aesop. Lalo's bunnies believe because they want and need to believe that Invicta is built just as well as Rolex and they are indeed purchasing real luxury timepieces at a price much closer to what it actually costs to produce them as opposed to all that excess profit squeezed out by the blackguarding luxury manufacturers and used for advertising their overhyped, overpriced, undersized, undemocratic, elitist, unAmerican watches as the real, genuine, desirable standard of luxury in the world. Gotta believe it or else they're no better than the guy next door. How much profit is legitimately allowed on a stainless steel watch? How do you define luxury? Is luxury a legitimate thing to desire? We know that a sturdy stainless steel 200m WR watch with a reliable automatic movement can be manufactured in China for $25 or less. Is that now our baseline of quality comparison? If so, then the Chinese have already turned the horological world upside down, the Swiss are bloated plutocrats and the argument ends here. Wonder what that same watch actually does cost a conscientious (oho!) toe-the-regulatory-line Swiss Watch Federation member to manufacture in Switzerland? $100? - $500? - $1000? What we imagine something should cost and what's a fair price for it is as subjective as it gets. It all depends on where you want to draw the "worth it" line. Perceived value of a Submariner not worth $6k to you - buy a Pro Diver for $50 on a DoD site. Just as happy with it as the Subbie? Cool! Is there plenty of markup on your average Ulysse' Nardin? Undoubtledly. Excessive? Probably. Should it be cheaper? Damn right! Want one? Yes, yes please sir, I do. Only you can decide where you draw your particular line. One could make the argument that all profit is by definition evil or at least dishonest. Hucksters? You can't cheat an honest man. The only person you can't afford to fool is yourself.

boscoe wrote:Can we talk?
I think we all realize most of the stuff surrounding "haute horology" and "fine watch brands" (as defined by Pierre "Ruptured Duck" Maillard's europastar) is pure snobbish designed to prop up the sales of over-priced items. There's no way, no how, a stainless watch should cost $4000 or more. These ass clowns are even MORE evil than Invicta!
Why?
Because their sleazy tactics SPAWNED the Big Cheese and gave The Lalo (May His Nut Sack Be Drained by a Raccoon) an opening (and credibility) in the business. He was able to convince gullible folks his watches were equal to name brands - because everyone knew the Swiss luxury industry was robbing consumers blind!
I'm thinking all high end watch companies are hucksters, too.

Darn, you are cranky today.............

No answers here to some of the points brought up for debate.

I would add this:
Take any reasonably intelligent adult citizen of the human race who doesn't know the first thing about watches. Allow them to play with a $4000 stainless steel watch, along with the $400 Invicta knock-off for an hour. Then ask them to identify the $4000 dollar watch. I'm sure they would get the answer right almost 100%. Quality is obvious. Now whether quality is worth the $3600 spread is another question.

Mrneedles deserves a corona gorda for that fine answer!

Boscoe:

The Lalo (May His Nut Sack Be Drained by a Raccoon)

You! An involuntary, guttural growl began and ended in my throat before my lips parted.

Yep, got rid of my Rolex datejust and it cost me $4K. NOW, the good news is I got back what I paid for it. Thing is, for 4K it was really an unimpressive watch. This was 2005, the year before Rolex beefed up their bracelets. Those bracelets were flimsy, IMO. Fine movement, but not worth 4K. I took the procedes and bought an Omega Seamaster for just south of 3K...happy...

neddles and falstaff got it. i will add that when i buy a watch i do know that i'm paying for heritage, history, reputation, exclusivity, and prestige. i'm ok with it.

mpswatches wrote:Yep, got rid of my Rolex datejust and it cost me $4K. NOW, the good news is I got back what I paid for it. Thing is, for 4K it was really an unimpressive watch. This was 2005, the year before Rolex beefed up their bracelets. Those bracelets were flimsy, IMO. Fine movement, but not worth 4K. I took the procedes and bought an Omega Seamaster for just south of 3K...happy...

Seeing your post reminded me that I reflected recently on the debate of selling my Datejust from 1993. I'm going to keep it but I still have a craving for a Sub and really like the Deep Sea after trying one on, but I refuse to pay that much for a watch.

I think many JLC's,Pateks, and others with "in house movements" crafted by master watchmakers are probably worth what ever the buyer is willing to pay.
Kind of like a sculpture or a painting by a respected artist. The price of the metal or canvas/paint is nothing when compared to the finished product.
Rolex and many other companies that mass produce may be overpriced but those that do not produce a million units a year and retain the painstaking approach to hand made craftsmanship and hands on human QC are in a totally different league.
I'm not a real art afficianado and would never pay top dollar for any piece of art but if I had the $$ I would jump at the chance to own a JLC,Blancpain or a PP.

CA Crew wrote:Boscoe:

The Lalo (May His Nut Sack Be Drained by a Raccoon)

You! An involuntary, guttural growl began and ended in my throat before my lips parted.

Yeah, I know that was pretty foul. Oops

Very good question. I think Falstaff summed up my viewpoint pretty well.